This week, Donnie speaks with Ryan Posner, a Los Angeles-based bass player, side man and musical director, about balancing his home and professional life, how to define country music, why it is important to push art forward and how bass players make great dads. 

They dive deep into the value of his current project, the nearly weekly Y’all Star Revue, a showcase at the original Desert 5 Spot in Hollywood. This event highlights the best local and touring country music talent who are on the verge of breaking out. 

Show Notes

1:50 — Ryan’s origin story: From a 16-year-old rocker to figuring out playing country music right before the pandemic. He tells Donnie that his first concert was Willie Nelson at age five and his second concert was Weird Al opening for the Monkees in the early 1980s — which really summarized his musical existence. Until he watched Ken Burns’ Country Music documentary.

6:38 — Bass players make great dads: Ryan has always been attracted, and it seems that the Country Music Dads are attracted to bass players. Perhaps the kind of person who likes to play bass is also the kind of person who wants to be a dad. 

8:58 — How do you truly balance the parenting? Being honest is a good start.

10:40 — What is The Y’all Star Revue, and what is the impact of this program on country music?

17:25 — What is real country music? Ryan ends the debate of what country music is and what it is not. His platform is to share new music with new audiences.

20:19 — Freedom from Choice: Ryan hopes that his new curated platform can help bring so many different kinds of music together to help develop a new experience outside of the over-saturation of the Los Angeles music scene. He prefers “freedom from choice” rather than “freedom of choice.” 

22:19 — More Debate on What Makes Real Country Music: But does this kind of platform push country music too far? Ryan says no. There is no line too far. Country music evolves just like every other kind of music, and the only person who can define “real” country music for that person is that person. 

30:55 — The Dad Life Sound Check: Ryan brings “Funny How Time Slips Away” by Willie Nelson, and Donnie talked about Waylon’s “Songbird.”

38:15 — THE LIGHTNING ROUND, which gets completely derailed by the last question about the one concert you could attend at any time. 

Thank you for listening. The best way to support us is to subscribe to the show on Spotify, Apple podcasts, or whatever podcast platform you use. If you want to see new episodes and more content delivered straight to your email inbox, please subscribe to our newsletter: countrymusicdads.substack.com. You can find everything we do on our website: countrymusicdads.com. And we’d love to hear what you think, so send us comments, suggestions, friendly banter on Instagram @countrymusicdads, or via email countrymusicdads@gmail.com.

Mentioned in this Episode:

• Few Miles South
• Slick City Pickers
• Jerry Zinn, West of Texas
• Ken Burns Country Music documentary
• Ted Russell Kamp episode
• Sean Burns episode
• The Y’all Star Revue
• Kimmi Bitter
• Allie and AJ 
• Show Bud Pedal Steel West Coast Re-launch
• Desert Five Spot
• Beard Bates 
• Brett Tomberlin
• Casual Drifter
• Ajii
• Cocaine and Rhinestones
• Creating Country Music: Manufacturing Authenticity
• Energy Follows Thought: The Stories Behind My Songs
• “Songbird” album by Waylon Jennings
• Shooter Jennings 
• Alicia Blue

References:

• Theme Music: “Dark Country Rock” by Moodmode
• “I Can Almost Taste the Whiskey” by West of Texas
• “My Grass is Blue” by Kimmi Bitter
• “Good News” by Shaboozey
• “Austin (Boots Stop Workin’)” by Dasha
• “Just Got Paid” by Brett Tomberlin
• “The Car Hank Died In” by Casual Drifter
• “Cherry” by Ajii
• “He Stopped Loving Her Today” by George Jones
• “Funny How Time Slips Away” by Willie Nelson
• “Songbird” by Waylon Jennings
• Live from Billy Bob’s by Pat Green

Transcript

This is Country Music Dads, the parenting podcast with the twang. We’re driving a highly subjective, comically contrarian, often irreverent conversation about fatherhood and country music for people who have a passion for both.

My name is Donnie, and I am a country music dad. Dave is still on leave, but he’ll be with us from the editing suite.

This week, we’ll be speaking with Brian Posner, a Los Angeles based bass player, sideman and musical director about balancing his home and professional life.

Ryan is a father of two teenage girls and serves as a fairly balanced partner with his wife when it comes to raising them. This is largely due to his superhero-like schedule.

When night falls, Ryan transforms from dad to the baseline, defending honking talks from Los Angeles to Austin, Nashville to Bakersfield from sloppy beats and boring riffs. Excuse me, sorry about that.

Currently, he serves as the musical director for The Y’all Star Revue, a regular Thursday night showcase at the original Desert 5 Spot in Hollywood.

This event highlights the best of local and touring country music acts who are on the verge of breaking out. Ryan is also a good friend and fellow dad in the local music scene. There are only so many of us.

So I’m very excited to have him join us today here on the show. So Ryan, thanks so much for joining us.

Hello, my name is Ryan Posner and I feel verklemmt about being Donnie Cutler’s friend. Wait, not this podcast. Hello Donnie, how are you?

It’s good to see you, good to talk to you.

Indeed. As the parenting thing does get in the way of the honky tonking every once in a while.

For some of us.

Especially, well, I have younger kids than you, so we’ll get into that. Bedtime routines are often complex and they usually start around 4.30 when hunger starts. It’s exciting.

But yeah, so Ryan, tell us a little bit about your journey to how you got to where you are today professionally.

1:50

Ryan’s origin story

I’ve been playing gigging in LA since I was 16 years old.

I moved out here when I was 10 from Connecticut. So born in Connecticut, raised in LA. So at 16, I started playing with rock bands, and then one rock band to another to another, I was always in a band situation.

It was always on various levels of like, we feel like we’re about to break through and we’re touring and we’re selling this place out and this place out, but it was always a one at a time journey.

A few years before the pandemic, so maybe 2018, I want to start playing country music, which I hadn’t really done much of before.

I was in mostly like rock and roll bands, but I never really felt like I had, like I would always ask myself, if I wasn’t in this band, would I listen to this band? Which is to say, I don’t think I ever was in my exact right place.

Right before that, actually, I had answered an ad on Craigslist because I just wanted to play music at that point. I just wanted to see what was going on. So I was kind of going to say yes to anything, so I answered a few ads.

I ended up playing with a band called A Few Miles South. So that was kind of my first country music thing.

Then I was like, I really am digging this because country music had always been in my life in one way or another, even though it was my primary focus or even what I primarily listened to growing up.

My first concert ever was my dad taking me to Willie Nelson. It must have been like 1983 or four, so it would have been five or six. As we saw him-

The braids just materialized after the show.

Then they just grew.

I had baby peach fuzz and then it all just grew into braids.

It’s impressive.

Thank you. That was the very first concert ever. Second concert ever was Weird Al Yankovic opening for The Monkees.

These were both, all three of these were in the same venue. That more or less sums up my entire musical existence right there, is the combination of all those things meeting.

That’s great.

But we’ll get to that later. It had always been something I love, but I just didn’t realize how much I loved it, until I started playing with A Few Miles South.

And then I put an ad saying, bass player seeking, because I had also got an upright bass when I was playing A Few Miles South, and I was just kind of getting into that, and getting into bluegrass and just upright bass, the way it was so physical, and

I just wanted to be able to play it fast, and just play really fast burning bluegrass. So I put an ad for myself on Craigslist saying, country bass, upright, blah, blah, blah. Two people replied to it. The group was called the Slick City Pickers.

So that became my bluegrass quartet that I was in, and we would meet up once a week, and we would play retirement homes. Just that type of gig. There’s a country club near their house, so we would play the Chevy Chase Country Club in Glendale.

And then the other guy who answered it was Jerry Zinn, who you may know. And that led to me playing with West of Texas. Then the pandemic happened, and what changed my life was Ken Burns’ Country Music documentary.

Playing country music at the time, and then watching that over the pandemic, so everything, state of mind is already just weird. So I’m watching this documentary with my AirPods on my phone and on my iPad, so it’s real intimate.

It’s like right, you know what I mean? It’s like there’s just something about the whole time.

The music I’ve been playing and then really the connection with how there’s a straight through line from the original Western music as we know it, American, US music, the three things that we can lay claim to.

Of course, all music is derived from all other music, but the three things that we lay claim to, blues, jazz, and country music. Oh yeah, the music I’m playing now is a direct descendant.

It’s just the next in line of this generation of, and I can see this clear line in being that connected. We have always used music to tell stories, and that music has always sounded no matter where you were on the face of the earth.

It all sounds a little bit like country music. For the most part, all folk music sounds, you know, it has that, that, and so many cultures that people just came up with on their isolated parts of the earth, right?

And we all came up with these same changes. So it’s just fundamental to who we are as human beings with vibration and with, you know what I’m saying?

Like, you got to move, you got to dance, you got to sing.

Exactly. You got to tell stories, you got to dance. Exactly, exactly.

It’s part of being human. That’s what that documentary really did for me was kind of just see how important it was. Okay, I get it.

It’s not like, it’s not like this fun little hobby to pursue.

And that’s what really made me decide, okay, after this, I’m going to go, I’m going to just like dedicate my whole self to trying to be a full time professional, country, bluegrass, et cetera, et cetera, musician.

That’s pretty wild. How did you get to the bass? Was that something that you always had played or was it like, hey, I have a great stank face, so I’m going to play the bass?

6:38

Bass players make great dads

I wanted to play the bass in third grade, going to elementary school, but third graders were too small to play the bass.

You had to be fourth grade. So I played the biggest thing I could or they, now that I’m saying it out loud, it could be some kind of some Freudian situation or something. Do I need to spell this out, Donnie?

Anyway, so I played the cello, but I liked the bass back then. Played the cello for a year, moved out to LA.

And then I just was with a friend who played guitar and he had a bass and I picked it up and I started playing it again and I just always loved it. So that’s it. I was just always attracted to the bass.

We seem to be attracted to the bass here at the Country Music Dads.

We’ve interviewed Ted Russell Camp, another member of the esteemed LA community. Sean Burns from Canada, who also plays the upright bass and electric bass. What’s the connection here?

Is there something about the bass that makes you a good father? Or is it just that I happen to know a lot of bass players?

It’s a direct correlation.

In all seriousness, if you look at the role that the bass as an instrument plays in a musical setting, typically in most music, in most American music, in most Western, in most music, it’s even personality wise vastly different than what you would

expect from a lead guitar player who wants to shred and be upfront and do stuff and certainly a lead singer. So I would think that somebody whose primary instrument is bass, we are by and large a certain type of person perhaps.

The stated role of a bass player for most music is that you’re there to support the other musicians, you’re framing the music so that they can go off on their adventures and you’re providing that backbone.

You and of course the drums, if the music has drums.

There’s a little dad nature, you’re like the band dad.

Wouldn’t be too much of a leap to make that parallel.

Yeah, all right, well I’m glad that that worked out.

And we know that guitar players are terrible fathers. I think that’s kind of what you’re implying, if I’m picking up, you were texting me that earlier.

I mean, I don’t want to put you on the spot or call you out, but I think I’m implying that all guitar players are terrible fathers and don’t get started with drummers.

They just bang on things. This devolved quickly from where we were talking about it nicely to then just busting on everybody else. So let’s get into a little bit of the fatherhood aspect of this.

You have two teenage kids at home. How does that work with your work?

8:58

How do you truly balance the parenting?

Is it as I said in the opening?

I will say with your lovely intro, it wasn’t always as balanced of a balance. And I was not the father I could have been early on. We’ll put it that way.

But then again, I also wasn’t a professional gigging musician early on, but I just want the record to be known. And I want to like to shout out to Alex, my wife, I love you. Thank you for raising our children.

No, not entirely. It did become balanced. She’s a morning person.

I’m a night person. So that kind of worked out well in a lot of ways as far as the parenting goes. One of the things I love more than anything else is going back to bed.

So me getting out of bed, driving my kid to school, then getting back into bed, then yes, super dad, dad of the year, because I did that a lot.

It’s a balancing act even till today. I mean, your kids are much older than mine. I mean, you started doing this after the pandemic, and I got to imagine that having a tween and a young teenager during that time period was less than ideal.

As your kids were essentially finding out who they were as young adults, and you finding out, I really do want to pursue this music professionally. Has there been a self-discovery that has taken place in tandem?

Yes, but I don’t know what the alternate would be. I don’t know what it would have looked like without all that, because that’s just the way it unfolded. You know what I mean?

So of course, you hope that you’re not the same person, or I hope I’m not the same person I am in a year. You know what I mean? You’re always evolving, and just by nature of having kids, everyone grows up.

All right, so let’s shift gears a bit.

You are the musical director of the Y’all Star Revue, which is the program that takes place on Thursday nights in Hollywood at the Desert 5 Spot.

10:40

What is The Y’all Star Revue

What is the Y’all Star Revue, and how did it come about?

The Y’all Star Revue is a mostly weekly showcase of emerging artists and talent locally, or touring acts, national acts as well, come in and sit with us.

The framework of it, the general idea, is that we have four guests, some local, some touring through. My band is the Y’all Star Band. I’m the band leader and the musical director.

And with these guest artists, we do two of their originals that my band backs them for, and two of their, two cover songs. So it’s a really, really fun show. Then we also have a headline actor, who last week we had Kimmy Bitter, that was great.

All sorts of great guests dropping by. We did, not to get too deep into plug-a-rama here, but Alley and AJ had their record release party at our show. And we did the show Bud, Pedal Steel, the West Coast relaunch we had there.

And that was just a really, really great event. So it provides us this platform to do all sorts of cool stuff that we are doing. And it’s chugging along with my partner and MC, Beard Bates.

Yes, that is his real name. He always says that. He says, yes, hi, I’m Beard.

Yes, that is my real name because he has a very long beard.

He was like destined to have that, I suppose.

He was. He was destined to have it. So that’s The Y’all Star Revue in a nutshell.

You have a pretty specific mission.

And we’ve talked about this a bunch.

And I think it’s quite interesting is that you’re trying to platform the best of the talent around, as well as showing a little bit more the range of Country Music, where it’s going, where it’s been from, and maybe not something that you’d

necessarily hear on country radio, but as well as going beyond what perhaps might be expected in kind of an alt-country underground experience. It’s a real range of artists. How do you feel that mission’s going? Are you hitting that balance right?

And how is that being received by those folks who are attending, perhaps not exactly what they were expecting at a nightclub on a roof in Hollywood?

I could not be happier with Desert 5 Spot. I love that place so much. What they offer and what they are is so great.

And to have that opportunity on Thursday night to platform, getting back to like in terms of sub-genres of country, I love that we’ll have a traditional artist and then like kind of a hip-hop country artist will come and we’ll do something with them

and much more pop country artist and then who knows. And D5 is kind of like part of the origin story of a lot of artists who have come up lately like Shaboosie. Dasha, I got to play with her because of my connection with Desert Five Spot.

The response is always so fulfilling and so tremendous that to answer that part of the question, it’s just like, it’s absolutely so much fun. The band that I have is so incredible. The Machine, we’ve been doing it for two years.

September is our two year anniversary month of having started the Y’all Star Revue, being the band leader of it.

The machine that we have there and how we have it dialed in and how great the band is and my goal, I want to be, and as far as I’m concerned, it’s the closest thing that we could possibly have to a grand old Opry of the West Coast.

You know what I mean? With that level of- That’s some big words right there.

I mean, and I don’t mean to say that we are that, but in terms of just being able to have a place where there’s a house band of the level that’s doing what we’re doing with these originals and with this covers, it’s really a, Jesus, now I just sound

It’s a pretty good band, man.

It’s a great band and we elevate all of our guests who are already incredible.

So it’s just like, it’s a freaking love fest every Thursday. And because it’s such a machine, I’m doing this every week with four guests doing four songs each.

So I don’t always get enough time to talk to all the artists in, in as much depth, I kind of have to be like, so a lot of times they have no idea what to expect.

They’re coming into it a little blind unless they’ve seen, seen the show before, but they don’t know how rehearsal is going to go. And then they just kind of get swept up into this, this thing that we got going. And I love that.

And we take really good care of them. It feels amazing for me to be able to platform these artists and so many of them. Desert 5 Spot, which is this really special place where everyone, it’s like a family, everyone over there loves each other.

You know what I mean? It’s like this really incredible thing, but just the framework of it being like a Grand Ole Opry where literally the biggest Nashville act can give us whatever notice, a day’s notice, and we could back them.

And that’s just all available. It’s really great to be a part of that and to be able to give younger artists who may not have experienced this level of what we’re doing a shot is also great. It’s really great.

Yeah, I mean, the recent show that I went to that was quite impressive, you had Brett Tomberlin, who had his single debut at the Gibson Guitar Lounge before he came up and sang his song, which I would say is right on the line of pretty modernized bro

I shamelessly will say that is pop country.

That’s pop country.

Pop country, right on the line, he wore a very form-fitting t-shirt and jeans. And then you had Casual Drifter, who couldn’t be more cosmic and out there from East Nashville.

On the same stage as Kate Morris, who is also a kind of a, has that kind of pop country diva sound. It’s a wide range of things.

Wide range, and we had Aji, who was in from Brooklyn.

Yeah, who was pretty impressive.

Just dropping in. He did his kind of hip hop country. He’s really great.

A-J-I-I.

He can sing.

Yeah, he can, he can.

That was impressive. It was really impressive.

Definite country undertones, as we’ve said before, as I’ve said to you, the only definition of country music, it’s like pornography. You know it when you hear it.

17:25

What is real country music?

Yep.

That’s all there is to it.

His song sounded country to me.

And just everybody in general, the beauty of country is that it’s such a big umbrella, and I get to play so many different genres of music, sub genres, and it’s all country because it is.

Because you said it is.

Yeah.

So that gets me into, I think, the core of our musical discussion tonight.

We’ll keep going a little deeper on this. I think it’s quite an interesting thing, this power that you have. You yourself described the bandleader of the Opry of the West.

I’m going to keep that going because that’s just going to happen. I mean, look. You said it’s there.

Act as if, right?

It’s a lot of power.

Yeah, but it’s a lot of power. I think that you do get the chance to platform some of these people who are coming up, who might not get that, or who already do, and wouldn’t necessarily share the stage with some of these other folks.

And there’s a feeding that takes place. There’s an influencing that takes place. There’s a sharing that takes place in music, generally.

When you force people to bang their music together, you might end up getting a kind of a different experience than you would if you were only listening to the music out of East Nashville versus the music off of the music row or the stuff from Atlanta

or Austin or wherever. And I think in LA, you get a lot of freedom to do that. So it’s interesting to have this kind of power. What does that mean?

Are we creating a different type of music environment here in Los Angeles that may not have existed before?

I’ve had a taste of power and I just want more. It’s really exciting and awesome to be able to do that. It’s kind of the bottom line.

And there’s so many great people making music in Los Angeles. I really want to see somebody break homegrown from our show, from LA first and foremost, because LA pride, I love LA., I love LA country music.

And I would love to be even a footnote in that journey for somebody. And you know what I mean? But I feel like I’m more than that.

I’ve had people come and tell me just by, literally just by people having seen on their Instagram that they were performing at Desert 5 Spot, they got gigs from it and they this that and the other thing. It’s super, super, super, super gratifying.

I would love to, and it’s gonna happen, it’s happening, be part of that journey of somebody really, really breaking big out of LA who doesn’t have to go to Nashville, quote unquote, have to go to Nashville to take that next step.

LA is so vibrant and arguably overentertains where any given night of any night of the week, you can go see almost any kind of music spread out over all of Los Angeles County, which is massive.

Very large.

Massive. I mean, there is no music scene like the LA music scene, I don’t think. There are things in common that are shared, and it’s the only music scene I’ve ever known, because I’ve been playing, like, to get back to the beginning since I was 16.

So I know, and I know how it’s pretty tough, too. A personal goal of mine is to help an artist break out of LA using this platform that we have.

20:19

“Freedom from Choice”

It’s interesting, because what you’re saying, I think, has a deep connection to the oversaturation of both talent and entertainment in LA., right?

Is that you have some of the greatest musicians, artists, actors, entertainers of all stripes who come here to make it, and then you have millions of people who do live here.

So the idea that it would be a massive success for someone to break out in the place where they came to do that, I think, is telling that it’s so hard to do here.

And I wonder if there’s something in this style of project that you have, The Y’all Star Revue, is that if this is something that will help break that over-saturation, uncurated mass of enjoyment that could be done but is so overwhelming that you

can’t get into it. It’s like the streaming effect, right? It’s like you have every piece of entertainment in front of you for pennies on the dollar of what it used to be, but you go back and you watch the same bad TV show over and over again.

If you’re creating a space that’s more curated, it may work out better. It’s like giving your kids the right decision, but letting them think that they made it.

Yeah, I prefer freedom from choice, freedom of choice, especially when it comes to streaming music and stuff like that. I’m either going to listen to something I’ve listened to or something completely out of left field.

Anyway, it’s going to be overwhelming for me, for someone, especially with a personality type like myself.

The fact that this place exists, Desert 5 Spot, and the fact that we have our night, instead of lamenting the state of the music industry and the live music industry or whatever you want to call it, which I’ve been doing since I was 16 years old, I

That’s quite cool.

What I wonder, to wrap this all up, is how does this both play into and help change the face of country music?

22:19

More Debate on What Makes Real Country Music

Because there is stigma connected to it. There is kind of a stodgy conservative with the lower case C feel to country music for a lot of reasons, some of them less good, but all of them like a legitimate type of thing.

Is there a place in country music for all of these people? And I think you’ve already answered that, but is there a place that’s a line too far? Is there something that’s just too much in too far beyond to be really called country music?

No, because that’s not what country music is.

It’s not even what it means anymore. Like country music evolves on its own, just like any other maxi genre. What’s biologically speaking like genus, it’s a genus of music now or something.

I don’t know what the terms are of what nests into what, right? That kind of gets back to my origin story of like being in the rock world. And granted, I’m a sample size of one.

I’m not speaking for the entire rock world back in the, you know, whatever years it was that I was doing it, but everyone was always so worried about being cool.

Nobody ever discussed, like they talked about like rock music we liked, but we never really thought further back than that. Again, sample size of one and me and my friends and what we talked about and what we’re into musically.

Whereas in the country world, we all celebrate the history of it, because we are that direct lineage to an original music of America.

So for the most part, I defy anyone who thinks they like one subgenre of country, to not have fun listen to a Hockey Tongue song. You know what I mean? Everybody has a freaking blast.

So no, there is no bridge too far. Anyone, gatekeeping of any kind in music, everyone has their opinion. Who am I to say what’s good music and what’s bad music?

Yes, of course, there’s objectively bad music. Of course, whatever that means out of tune, but some people like it.

I actually don’t think anyone likes it. I think they’re trying to say that they like it. I’ll die on that hill.

Fair enough.

But yes, I think there’s a level where it reaches where it’s objectively bad music. Typically, what the music I don’t like is just boring to me. That’s kind of the bottom line.

That’s really all there is to it. It’s like just boring.

There’s so many ways still to build on traditional honky tonk music that it’s just a little, ooh, that chord change is just a little, oh yeah, like just where he went with that is just a little different the melodies, a little different the clever

I find myself trying to figure that out a lot.

It ties nicely back to kind of parenting, right? It’s like, what’s the right thing to do and what’s the wrong thing to do? It’s usually not any sort of clear answer.

There’s probably a couple things you probably shouldn’t cross the board, both in music and in parenting. It’s just an interesting question, right? It’s like, where do you draw the line?

I think your approach is interesting and perhaps not one that all of our listeners will agree with. I can’t wait to get the heated email. I get that from-

I think we can all agree that the only person who could define what, let’s just use the old cliche of what real country music is, for that person is that person.

You know what I mean? I would challenge people to be even more specific than that and actually break it down into like- Because the country music umbrella, the genus, the whatever it is, can we just Google?

What is that called? What is that? You consider what we consider real country music, quote unquote, now was pop crap in the 60s.

Correct.

That’s my biggest thing.

That was what Willie Nelson moved to Texas to get away from, was that syrupy stuff. The beginning of my country music journey, I was like, oh, George Jones is cool, but a little syrupy, a little…

It’s not like what I was really into that got me into country music. Obviously, my thoughts have changed a lot now, but… If country music didn’t evolve, it would die.

Instead, it evolves and it continues to be part of it, and it really shouldn’t even, the only reason it’s like separated out from other music is because of, you know, race stuff.

What I’ve learned from Cocaine and Rhinestones, what I walked away from that and the country music documentary was it was separated because of race, right? More or less. You had your race stations and you had your, what were they called?

Hillbilly Records.

Yeah, so anyway.

What I will say, I’ll plug my favorite academic book right here, is that if you like that storyline, you should definitely read the, it’s called Creating Country Music Manufacturing Authenticity.

And it is absolutely one of the greatest books I’ve ever read on country music. It blew my mind. It changed the way I thought about things and helped a lot with framing some of this stuff up.

It goes to show you just how important the storyline is. It becomes much more of a marketing question, and it’s how you market all of this stuff, right? There’s a reason why it’s called Bro Country.

It’s a reason why they called it Outlaw Country. It wasn’t anything different than the next evolution of what was coming along.

And I would argue some of the regressive look-back styles that come, the reactionary music that takes place every, call it 20 years. Outlaw music was reacting to the Syrupy George Jones.

But that also happened like 10, 15 years after the end of the Bakersfield Sound Revolt, which happened at a different point when there was a derivation between the local scenes where there was much more influence of wherever you were from.

If you were in California, the Mexican sounds from Texas, the Mexican sounds as well. You have Nashville, you had Hillbilly music, you had the Appalachian impact.

But then you nationalized with larger and stronger radio stations and then that became homogenized and you had Western and you had country. And then those two came together and then you have revolts and revolts and reactions and progressions.

And all of it is I think what makes Country Music interesting is that you have this evolution and then you have this regression that pushes on each other back and forth.

I think the most interesting thing you said to tie it back to today’s arguments is that what we see as classic country music today is George Jones, but we also see Willie Nelson in that same breath.

Those two things are diametrically opposed in the times that they came up. You couldn’t have the Armadillos and the guys in Nashville playing together. That wouldn’t have happened.

But now you have on a classic country station, either terrestrial radio or satellite radio. Those guys are playing back to back as classic country. And you could throw Buck Owens in that mix and no one would blink an eye.

But that’s crazy from a traditional perspective. It shouldn’t exist.

That is while all the nerdy nerds are busy fighting over what is real country music and trying to classify it and silo the real they’re missing the force for the trees. The real beauty of country music is that it is all inclusive.

There is no other genre family of music that sticks together that under one roof, whether that be stagecoach or whatever, you’re getting all these very different styles of music.

The every style of music that has come from the combination of country, jazz and blues, which is all American music. All American music comes from those three things, intertwining in one way or another.

Then they go off and like I’ve said, Tyler Mahan Coe said it on some live stream that there’s no genre of music that has changed as much as country music and is still called the same thing.

It’s a great quote.

It’s a great quote. Rock music becomes heavy metal, becomes progressive, becomes so many different show genres, especially nowadays that I couldn’t even begin to do it.

Country becomes all these other sub-genres, but it’s still all country and we still all hang out together.

That’s all that matters to me is the beauty of it and how amazing it is that I’m now in a genre where I can play a hip-hop beat on one song and it works perfectly and then play a full on Western Swing song, the very next one, and then play a full on

bluegrass, all that kind of stuff and it’s all cohesive. That’s the beauty of it rather than trying to say what is or isn’t country.

I think that’s a great place for us to transition into, perhaps, a conversation about some actual music.

Now it is our time for our recurring segment, the Dad Life Sound Check, where we talk about a new song that is speaking to us, an old song that’s speaking to us as fathers, as country music fans, or just for some random reason.

30:55

The Dad Life Sound Check

So we love to let our guests go first. Ryan, tell me a song that’s been speaking to you lately.

My song for the week, Donnie, since you asked, is Funny How Time Slips Away, Willie Nelson. That’s been covered by many artists.

This is, I believe the original recording is off the Willie Nelson, the way I know it is off the Willie Nelson box set, The Early Years. And I think it was his demo of it that he shopped around to have other artists cover it.

I’m one to always ask, like, what are your top five or top ten? Because trying to say, like, a favorite is really hard.

But this may be my favorite recording of all time in how the recording sounds and the content, the story that song tells and how there’s that vitriol in it and, like, just something about it. And then it’s also, he’s also so sad, clearly, you know?

And then Willie’s performance on that song, singing and hitting some of those notes, where he hits those blue notes, it’s just so beautiful and perfect. And there have been so many moments.

I remember once I was on the Smith River in a place called Gatsky, California, at the Jedidiah Smith Campground, one of the most beautiful place on earth, the Smith River, and I had that in my headphones, and I listened to it over and over and over

again, because again, it was just one of those moments in time. It just was hitting perfect and all, just listening to the nuance of that recording.

So that’s my song, is that particular recording of Funny How Time Slips Away, with parenting, obviously, I will just say I have a, one of my daughters is eligible to go to college this year. You know, so things are changing and they always do.

In that short period of time that you’re in right now, it is funny how that time slips away.

Yeah.

Like really, really does. So that’s my song.

Yeah, it’s a good one. It’s funny. My wife got me a coffee table book, Willie Nelson songs that have the lyrics on one side and like a little explanation that he gave on the other.

And I started reading it with my oldest son and we’d listen to the music. We’d read along with the lyrics and then we’d read the story. And when that one came on, he was like, that’s a good song.

I like that one. And that one hit hard because I was like, oh man, he’s starting to get it.

That recording too, like that particular performance, as the verses progress, you know, how’s your new love? I heard you told him that you’d love him till the end of time. That’s the same thing you told me, you know?

And then the next verse is like, you’ll regret this. By the end of that, it’s like, one day you’ll regret this.

And it’s so like, the way it builds, and the way he does it, and the way he phrases it on that performance is just, anyway, I could go on and on. It’s so perfect.

Yeah. The story that the company, the lyrics, really explained the building of that. How like, it’s a good one.

That’s a cool book. I’d recommend it. We’ll put it in the show notes for those who would like to take a look.

Show notes. You have to say show notes at least once in a podcast. That is in the rules of podcasting.

Today’s secret word is show notes.

Show notes.

All right.

Hit that subscribe, like and subscribe everybody.

Just like and subscribe. Anyhow, mine is. Check out my links here.

You can go to my socials here and here.

Yeah, exactly.

So my song for tonight and for this show is a Songbird, Waylon Jennings most recent release off of the album that’s coming out this month. And it’s so good. It’s so beautiful.

And the production that Shooter Jennings, his son, put on that is superb. It shows the care and love that he wants to do.

And I’m not saying that he doesn’t take that type of professionalism to all of the work that he’s doing, but there’s something visceral and deeper in this.

It might also be that Waylon Jennings is probably one of the greatest country singers of all time. His voice is incredible and powerful. Shooter is an incredible producer.

And I think he really brings out the best in the people that he works with. You don’t always know that it’s a Shooter Jennings production, but you always know who’s performing. And it makes them seem better at what they’re doing.

And I think that’s what a producer really should be doing, I think, is elevating the art of the people that he’s working with or she’s working with or they’re working with.

I think that’s quite impressive, his approach to this music and all of the music that he’s been putting out. He’s been putting out a ton. There seems to be love in this, and I don’t mean it to seem trite or contrived.

It’s just so beautiful and the song sounds so good. And the other performers that he brought in, and background singers, and these are the best in the business across the board.

I’ve talked to Shooter a couple of times, actually most of them at the Desert 5 Spot during the Show Bud Show, which was just wild and unbelievable.

And he really is a deeply carrying person who wants the music that he is helping create to shine all by itself. And it’s very clear that he’s taking even more care of this music and I am real excited to listen to the whole record when it comes out.

And it will be out by the time you’re listening to this, so go throw that on and try not to cry as you do the dishes or like work in the yard or whatever it is.

But it’s a really timeless and powerful song, even though it was recorded so long ago and being produced today, it feels like it’s of today and of then at the same time. I just, I find it to be very powerful. It’s really nice.

Waylon for sure, top country singer of all time, one of them.

I totally agree with that. I love Shooter. Every interaction I’ve ever had with him has just been so great.

He loves music so much. I can only guess what it means for him to be doing this with his dad’s music, with this vault that he uncovered.

I don’t, I forget the exact story that it was all of a sudden there they were and just this incredible stuff and being able to live that legacy. And I am very happy that that is a Los Angeles thing.

I’m very happy that Los Angeles has Shooter Jennings, that we get to claim him as our own, you know? And he’s such a great guy, like I said, in every interaction I’ve ever had, he’s just been super enthusiastic.

We’ve had a few of his artists that he’s produced and worked with play with us. Alicia Blue was one of the more recent ones. Did you see that Joe?

That was really, really good.

I don’t know if I did.

You should check her out. She’s great. My band backed her for a set and she comes out to Nashville and we’re able to do that for that kind of act.

And she was out here recording with Shooter. Anyway, I love what he is doing and very, very cool and very stoked to see that he gets to do this.

Final thing of the night. And I didn’t tell you about this ahead of time because it is the lightning round.

38:15

The LIGHTNING ROUND

This is an old segment that I wanna bring back because it helps me out.

Do I need to lock in for this one or what?

You should lock in for this. So this is an old segment. We hope to bring it back, especially as Dave is still on family leave, in which we ask the dads who are our guests a list of one-line questions and hopefully get one-line answers.

You ready? So here we go. Jones or straight?

Jones.

That’s the right answer.

And we can talk about that more later if you want. All right. Now, chunky or smooth peanut butter?

Smooth. That’s also a good answer. I respect either.

I’m more of a smooth man.

I’ll have both. I will have both. I love peanut butter.

I love the sugar garbage peanut butter. I love the natural peanut butter that you have to stir for 14 hours. That’s what I grew up on.

It helps if you have a paint mixer at home, but I will not turn down any peanut butter. Sorry, that was longer than one line.

It’s okay. For the love of peanut butter.

For the love of peanut butter, it had to be said.

Smooth on sandwiches, though.

Agreed. If I’m buying peanut butter, it’s gonna be smooth. Did we mention that I have daughters?

Because they also like the smooth stuff. Around this house, it’s a smooth GIF house. They won’t even put up with the Scudders.

I’m a Scudders man, but they will not put up with the Scudders because they think it’s too gross that something natural exists in this world.

Country Music Dads, sponsored by Scudders.

Laura Scudders, LA. Scudder.

We’ll take it. Any way you want to give it to us, we will eat that peanut butter regardless of shaking. Moving along.

Sorry, start the clock again.

Starting the clock again.

All right, here we go. Beer or whiskey?

Whiskey.

Whiskey or wine?

Whiskey.

Beer or wine?

Beer.

You could play in one band at any time in history. What band and when?

Willie Nelson’s backing band throughout his entire history of his career.

So would you also now be 90 years old?

Yeah, that’d be fine. If I could live the life, if I could live alongside Willie Nelson for his entire life, that would be, I would be happy to be at the end of my life right now with him, jamming as hard as we could.

Until the end. All right, and if you could attend one show, any time in history, what would that show be?

Oh, wow. I don’t feel like I know enough about historical shows. And all the ones that jump out are not like country shows, necessarily.

That’s fine, that’s fine.

No, I know.

I’m not, I’m not, I wasn’t asking for permission. Come on, Don. I was just, I’m, this is called Thinking Out Louds.

Like who wants to be a millionaire style? I’m just, my thought process here. I mean, you want to say like, what?

Woodstock? Woodstock 99, not that 60s bullshit. It’s gotta be the one, it’s gotta be the one where everything got lit on fire.

Yeah, whatever, like 2006 or whatever. The Limp Bizkit one, that other stuff that’s, no, no. We got Woodstock 67 or whatever it would be.

Yeah, 69.

69, was it 69?

Thank you. But I’m sure there’s other ones that I don’t know of that I’d rather go to. I mean, then there’s like the Beatles playing, what, Shea Stadium?

What are they, what are they, like, legendary? What have other people said?

This is a new question. I’m bringing back the segment, so I think that’s cool.

What’s like the most, can we talk then? What’s the most legendary concert in country music history? Like, I would say, like, I would, it would truly be like one of those ones that was on, like, what, George Jones’ Farm.

I would love you that, or Willie’s Ranch, or something like that, where it’s like, something like that would be my answer.

One of the original July 4th.

I’ll maybe, like, have being side stage at Farm Aid, or something like that would be pretty sick. Like, whatever the most legendary one of those was, maybe.

But the true answer, but I can’t answer specifically, would be like one of those ranch concerts or something, where it’s like Willie and George Jones, and whoever. Like, is there a legendary, what’s like a legendary?

There was a pretty legendary one of those, and I’d have to go back and check the year, but I believe it was in the mid, late 60s or early 70s at Willie’s Farm, where George Jones showed up. He was a little bit messed up at that point.

And so like all the guys took up a collection, gave him money, tried to like get him functional, and they all sang together, and you had these guys with long hair, hippie types, and wearing leather vests, and cut off jeans, and then George Jones in

his golf shirt, and pressed slacks, and they were all just banging out, like classic country songs. I think that would be pretty cool.

In that neighborhood, the first time maybe Bill Monroe played the Grand Ole Opry would be really interesting. And the reaction to that, sorry, this is more than one line, but it got me thinking about other things.

This one’s fun.

Like, yeah, like historically speaking, like something like that, we, you know, and to kind of see like all the pearl clutching that happened when bluegrass happened at the Grand Ole Opry, which was like the, sorry, Dave, it was like the FN heavy

metal. It’s like what like progressive heavy metal is now. That’s what bluegrass is and was to country. It was like these shredders doing stuff.

You know what I mean? Like this fast paced anyway. But like, you know, and then he didn’t play for, right?

Like that was the one he was one and done. And is my history correct on that?

I believe you’re right.

Yeah, or maybe a few and done. But anyway, it was so I would love to see that.

I would love to see the Hank Williams show that he didn’t show up to at the Grand Old Opry. I think having them try to figure out what to do during that period would be pretty cool.

In a much more modern and very different thing, and I’ve actually seen this guy live in this place before, I would have loved to have seen Pat Green live at Billy Bob’s when he did the recording of Live at Billy Bob’s, because he was nowhere near the

star he was today when he did that. And it’s one of its most popular albums. He’s ever had, and it essentially got him his big record label deal and also pushed him back towards doing the independent Texas thing, which is cool.

For sure, the one that I’m sad that I did not go to was the Boys from Oklahoma show in Stillwater in April of last year. Oh, wow. Turnpike Troubadours and Cross Canadian Ragweed for their reunion.

That would have been awesome, but that’s like the first night of Passover, I think. So that wasn’t going to work for me.

Have you guys ever talked about the Palomino?

Not on this show, but it’s crazy acts.

If I could magically wrap up every show at the Palomino and use it for my answer. And I say that because I live probably about a distance from.

Yeah, probably I’d be shocked if it was plus or minus over like a mile for, you know, like a mile 10, something like that. It was like it’s it’s right around the corner for me on Lancashim.

I’m in North Hollywood, so that would have also, I did not get a chance to experience that and it’s all its glory. So I would have loved. God.

Oh my God. Can you imagine? Can you imagine if I lived a mile away from the Palomino and it’s a heyday?

Holy shit.

Yes, indeed. We should rent out the Palomino.

I agree.

And throw a massive concert there.

All right.

I’m going to wrap this. Thank you for listening. The best way to support us is to subscribe to the show on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or whatever podcast platform you use.

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We’re working on some incredibly cool things for you. So until next time, whether you’re at the dance hall, the playground, the schoolyard, or just folding some laundry, thanks for tuning in. We’ll talk to you soon.

Unxious, I think, is a good word for it on this. I mean, it’s just like, there’s so much in it.

Is it like oily?

I think it means, I think it means unxious. Isn’t it onomatopoeic? There we go.

No, I think it means like an oily, like car salesman.

Am I wrong?

You’re right. Slip of the tongue. Had too much unxious food.